A NEW ZEALADER’S VIEW ON REASON FOR #CORRUPTION IN INDIA
Brian from Godzone
NEW ZEALAND
Indians are Hobbesian
(Culture of self interest)
Corruption in India is a cultural aspect. Indians seem to think nothing peculiar about corruption. It is everywhere.
Indians tolerate corrupt individuals rather than correct them.
No race can be congenitally corrupt.
But can a race be corrupted by its culture?
To know why Indians are corrupt, look at their patterns and practices.
First:
Religion is transactional in India.
Indians give God cash and anticipate an out-of-turn reward.
Such a plea acknowledges that favours are needed for the undeserving.
In the world outside the temple walls, such a transaction is named “bribe”.
A wealthy Indian gives not cash to temples, but gold crowns and such baubles.
His gifts can not feed the poor. His pay-off is for God. He thinks it will be wasted if it goes to a needy man.
In June 2009, The Hindu published a report of Karnataka minister G. Janardhan Reddy gifting a crown of gold and diamonds worth Rs 45 crore to Tirupati.
India’s temples collect so much that they don’t know what to do with it. Billions are gathering dust in temple vaults.
When Europeans came to India they built schools. When Indians go to Europe & USA, they build temples.
Indians believe that if God accepts money for his favours, then nothing is wrong in doing the same thing. This is why Indians are so easily corruptible.
Indian culture accommodates such transactions morally. There is no real stigma. An utterly corrupt JayaLalita can make a comeback, just unthinkable in the West.
Second –
Indian moral ambiguity towards corruption is visible in its history. Indian history tells of the capture of cities and kingdoms after guards were paid off to open the gates, and commanders paid off to surrender.
This is unique to India.
Indians’ corrupt nature has meant limited warfare on the subcontinent.
It is striking how little Indians have actually fought compared to ancient Greece and modern Europe.
The Turks’ battles with Nadir Shah were vicious and fought to the finish.
In India fighting wasn’t needed, bribing was enough to see off armies.
Any invader willing to spend cash could brush aside India’s kings, no matter how many tens of thousands soldiers were in their infantry.
Little resistance was given by the Indians at the “ Battle ” of Plassey.
Clive paid off Mir Jaffar and all of Bengal folded to an army of 3,000.
There was always a financial exchange to taking Indian forts. Golconda was captured in 1687 after the secret back door was left open.
Mughals vanquished Marathas and Rajputs with nothing but bribes.
The Raja of Srinagar gave up Dara Shikoh’s son Sulaiman to Aurangzeb after receiving a bribe.
There are many cases where Indians participated on a large scale in treason due to bribery.
Question is: Why Indians have a transactional culture while other ‘civilized’ nations don’t?
Third –
Indians do not believe in the theory that they all can rise if each of them behaves morally, because that is not the message of their faith.
Their caste system separates them.
They don’t believe that all men are equal.
This resulted in their division and migration to other religions.
Many Hindus started their own faith like Sikh, Jain, Buddha and many converted to Christianity and Islam.
The result is that Indians don’t trust one another.
There are no Indians in India, there are Hindus, Christians, Muslims and what not.
Indians forget that 400 years ago they all belonged to one faith.
This division evolved an unhealthy culture. The inequality has resulted in a corrupt society, in India every one is thus against everyone else, except God and even he must be bribed.
Brian from Godzone
NEW ZEALAND
I have often thought so but have also said “it cannot be so bad”! May be I am wrong but I.did not have iti me to join the bribe takers even though it means to be one with our Gods!! Would youxhort all and sundry to explore change.? SHANTONU SEN
What an absurd argument, full of factual inaccuracies. The worlds most treacherous betrayals are in European history. http://list25.com/25-betrayals-changed-course-history/
Did the authors ancestors go to New Zealand to colonise because of their moral uprightness or hobbesian view ! This article is nothing but modern form of justification for intervention in other countries. Want business please do it, but please don’t comment on other cultures without understanding them fully.
Kiwis should eat kiwi and keep their mouth shut.
To a large extent true as a Hindu I feel v try & take the easy way out ….bribe….but the crux of the matter which INDIAN community started it has to b examined too!!
Doesn’t seem to have anything to do with New Zealand or with a New Zealander. It’s a re-post of a piece some five years old by Kiran Diwan:
http://creative.sulekha.com/indians-are-hobbesian-culture-of-self-interest-a-fwd_525700_blog
Such courage is expected of Sicularists.
It is a kind of atrocity literature, which is targeted to portray Indian culture as bad without essense ot truth any historical evidence.It is a propaganda from missionaries of other religion.
I agree to almost all the points raised in this post. Based on my analysis and understanding, I would have put the same set of conclusions, if I had written on this topic. One point that this author has missed though is – Indians find innumerable ways to counter any argument that shows them in bad light. This in my view is the post-modern culture of surrogate supremacy (as if in a dream). It is unfortunate because India accounts for so much of human population. I just hope that with new generations coming up, things will change.
Best is ignore such ignorants, whose ancestors from the Europe went about the word, conquering welcoming hosts and wiping out the local culture. This too happened 400 years back.. guess, it tiime for him to ponder where the rot would have started.! 🙂
Please point out the factual inaccuracies in this post, if you can, Abhishek. Try to reflect on the content of the message and ask if it is true. Don’t shoot the messenger of this message.. that is a major flaw in argument called ad hominem. And don’t say that others were more corrupt – because that will not lessen the indictment of the corruption in Indian culture. It will be in the best interests of Indians if they have the courage to accept the fact they are a very oppressive culture meting out inequality and slavery to their own countrymen and bribing everyone including the gods in their temples at every opportunity and also deeply mired in superstitions in irrational thinking including astrology, vastu and such. In Tirupati, if you pay more, you get a shorter queue and longer darshan of the Lord. How pathetic all this is… only accepting the fact of our weaknesses will help us overcome them one day
Thanks for your comments.It was not my intention to have a personal view on the author. Apologies if it appeared like that. The inaccuracies are too many – factual as well those arising out of lack of understanding. I have presented the worst cases of bribery in europe as well. The moral ground of ‘if others were more corrupt, doesn’t make me a saint’ is not really relevant because this article is primarily history centric and needs to be dealt with in that perspective. The point that i am trying to make is that every society has to deal with corruption in an industrial world – it is by product of monetary economy & not culture. Hinduism is transactional. Isn’t any other religion – Christianity / Islam ? Where someone else ( a prophet ) is your middleman to truth / Salvation / Whatever else. In fact Hindu culture is least transitional – coz there is no middleman. People paying donations in Temples – Hell man, 400 yrs ago Churches were running Governments in Europe.There are many corrupt people in India who never go to temples. This article never gave any research data on it ! It is the years of European education system that has fed Indian minds that how pathetic we are. This has been the primary method to impose their supremacy all over the world. Feed so much of venom against oneself that the people lose self respect. Once that is done you are a slave for a lifetime. Caste system which is usually seen as a weapon against India is mostly made to be misunderstood to make it fit into their concept of ‘tribe’ & ‘races’. If we were to remove the ‘by Birth’ part of it, it is simply division of labour. The ‘By Birth’ part started only very late in Indian Society when people wanted to keep the wealth within the family & this happened in every society. What else is Capitalism? Why Indians converted ? – is the basic question the author has raised on ‘400 yrs ago all were Hindus ?’ Well there are two reasons to it – the first is because Hindus were allowed to do so. Their culture did not impose any one path. The second is Invasion – Just like in Spain ! Did Christianity give the option of conversion 400 yrs back ? Europeans Opened schools in India – Please read Mahatma Gandhi’s view on this as to how the whole education system was disrupted in India to further their own agenda. While it is essential to understand our weaknesses it is equally important to understand the correct perspective – if we go by arguments of people who do not really understand the culture we will end up looking down upon ourselves rather than making a purposeful judgement and taking sustainable actions. I’ll give you an example – take the case of caste based reservations – the policy fits nicely into the European concept of justice – everything can be compensated monetarily. Has is solved our real issue. NO, because we tried to deal with a social problem with an economic tool ! As per European culture economic status governs social status as well. So may be economic affirmation may improve social status as well in Europe. In Indian culture it does not & therefore such action did not work. So when i reflect on this article i find a biased opinion based on distorted and incomplete version of history, devoid of any reliable research data.
Even though you are quite correct in identifying the anomalies in the original article (the “originality” is questionable however), the sad fact is that corruption is too pervasive in India, in width as well as in depth. No matter what the situation is, corruption is present – ALWAYS.
Also, the other point is that corruption has compromised EVERY sphere and ALL levels of Indian society. Even friends and relatives – from personal experience – are NOT always honest with each other.
At the end it all boils down to “civility”. Civility is not just being polite. It is composed from a collection of attributes. Arguably these attributes are, namely, adherence to Rule of Law (perhaps the most critical), commitment bound, sensitivity to others, courtesy, compassion and charitableness, sensitivity to environment, hardworking, disciplined, cleanliness, etc., etc.
From personal interaction with people there it can be said with certainty that civility in India has taken a nosedive in the last few decades.
Finally, Indians typically do NOT want to acknowledge a flaw. A flaw MUST be acknowledged first. Without an acknowledgement, a flaw will not be addressed and will NEVER be corrected.
If your assertions are correct, WHY is it that India is behind a host of countries by ANY measure?
India is not among the worst but FAR behind MANY!!!
Take ANY measure. Go for educational indicators. Go for health indicators. Go for wealth indicators. Go for infrastructure indicators. Go for environmental indicators.
NO MATTER whatever indicator one chooses, one will find – with CERTAINTY – how far behind India is compared to rest of the world.
Blaming other factors – such as British occupation that ended almost seventy years ago – will NOT Help. Germany and Japan were LITERALLY decimated after second world war. Guess where they are now?
Look at other countries in South East Asia. Look at their infrastructure and compare them with that in India.
Finally, a flaw MUST be acknowledged first. Without an acknowledgement, a flaw will not be addressed and will NEVER be corrected. And India has MANY MANY flaws – absolutely as well as relatively.
Dear Mr Brian, let me respond your mischievous cultural allegations from the reverse order,
You call yourself the least corrupt nation, but social psychology tells that crime is related to the density of a nation. Newzealanders density is 8.96 and that of India is 328. If new Zealand had the same density as that of India you would probably be stealing each other and cutting each other’s throat. It is a miracle that this country still exists quite decently with this chaotic density.
Secondly history always shows the gory nature of mankind, and when you talk of sabotage in the Indian continent, should I remind you of how the British bribed the Chinese main land and injected opium for money or how conniving your fore father’s wiped out an entire race of Aboriginals in Australia and new Zealand. Shall I then call your culture that which harbours on barbarism?
Thirdly, you call our religion transactional. Let me b remind you that in the name of the church and missionary services, entire Africa and Asia was being plundered, should I call our transaction nature as better than your thieving ones?
Fourthly you should know that 88.8% of temple money through out India(including Tirupathi) get siphoned out to government projects. Name one country where money from religious institutions get into the government coffers.
Lastly, I have to laugh that you know not only very little of our faith and even lesser of yours. While the element of faith of your lands is on a messenger or a God, the fundamentals of Hindu faith does not lay on a God or not even on messengers like Krishna or Ram, it lays on the eternal(sanathana) principle of values ( dharma ). This makes a Hindu believe in being good and truth to reach the gates of heaven. No other religion and culture in the world has a faith element on a set of universal values such as truth and dharma.
The corruption in India is because of the weakening of its culture. Corruption despite the culture and not because of it
Ravishankar Thiagarajan
(From non Barbaric nation in the world)
Excellent reply Rahul, hope people read your reply
Kindly read my response too
Very very good response and detailed, hope people read your response
let me respond your mischievous cultural allegations from the reverse order,
You call yourself the least corrupt nation, but social psychology tells that crime is related to the density of a nation. Newzealanders density is 8.96 and that of India is 328. If new Zealand had the same density as that of India you would probably be stealing each other and cutting each other’s throat. It is a miracle that this country still exists quite decently with this chaotic density.
Secondly history always shows the gory nature of mankind, and when you talk of sabotage in the Indian continent, should I remind you of how the British bribed the Chinese main land and injected opium for money or how conniving your fore father’s wiped out an entire race of Aboriginals in Australia and new Zealand. Shall I then call your culture that which harbours on barbarism?
Thirdly, you call our religion transactional. Let me b remind you that in the name of the church and missionary services, entire Africa and Asia was being plundered, should I call our transaction nature as better than your thieving ones?
Fourthly you should know that 88.8% of temple money through out India(including Tirupathi) get siphoned out to government projects. Name one country where money from religious institutions get into the government coffers.
Lastly, I have to laugh that you know not only very little of our faith and even lesser of yours. While the element of faith of your lands is on a messenger or a God, the fundamentals of Hindu faith does not lay on a God or not even on messengers like Krishna or Ram, it lays on the eternal(sanathana) principle of values ( dharma ). This makes a Hindu believe in being good and truth to reach the gates of heaven. No other religion and culture in the world has a faith element on a set of universal values such as truth and dharma.
The corruption in India is because of the weakening of its culture. Corruption despite the culture and not because of it
Ravishankar Thiagarajan
(From non Barbaric nation in the world)
Dear Mr Brian, let me respond your mischievous cultural allegations from the reverse order,
You call yourself the least corrupt nation, but social psychology tells that crime is related to the density of a nation. Newzealanders density is 8.96 and that of India is 328. If new Zealand had the same density as that of India you would probably be stealing each other and cutting each other’s throat. It is a miracle that this country still exists quite decently with this chaotic density.
Secondly history always shows the gory nature of mankind, and when you talk of sabotage in the Indian continent, should I remind you of how the British bribed the Chinese main land and injected opium for money or how conniving your fore father’s wiped out an entire race of Aboriginals in Australia and new Zealand. Shall I then call your culture that which harbours on barbarism?
Thirdly, you call our religion transactional. Let me b remind you that in the name of the church and missionary services, entire Africa and Asia was being plundered, should I call our transaction nature as better than your thieving ones?
Fourthly you should know that 88.8% of temple money through out India(including Tirupathi) get siphoned out to government projects. Name one country where money from religious institutions get into the government coffers.
Lastly, I have to laugh that you know not only very little of our faith and even lesser of yours. While the element of faith of your lands is on a messenger or a God, the fundamentals of Hindu faith does not lay on a God or not even on messengers like Krishna or Ram, it lays on the eternal(sanathana) principle of values ( dharma ). This makes a Hindu believe in being good and truth to reach the gates of heaven. No other religion and culture in the world has a faith element on a set of universal values such as truth and dharma.
The corruption in India is because of the weakening of its culture. Corruption despite the culture and not because of it
Ravishankar Thiagarajan
(From non Barbaric nation in the world)
I feel he is a KRK.
Absolute nonsense.. Christianity and Islam is transactional..thats why they have tithing to the Church/mosque. and worse yet, the belief in a scape goat for the evil they can commit cause they have Jesus the Scapegoat for their shit!
scape·goat
ˈskāpˌɡōt/
noun
1. (in the Bible) a goat sent into the wilderness after the Jewish chief priest had symbolically laid the sins of the people upon it (Lev. 16).
verb
2. make a scapegoat of.
The reason for corruption is the due to the culture of socialism. Govt control on everything. instead of freemarket and market pricing of supply and demand that arbitrates the right price point. They want to control the economic universe which is almost impossible… so the people say, screw you…we will do what is in our best interest because the leftists socialists do not do what is in our interest. When the govt sets a price for train fairs that is artificially below cost or below what people are willing to pay to help the “poor”, then free market would take its course through scalping.
The Islamists in Afghanistan are bought are sold like a bunch of whores.. Americans pay off the Muslims village leaders… Pakistan is the biggest whore on the planet…they are often paid off by Americans for screwing them and then in turn screw the Americans.
Hindus are not idological fanatics…unlike Christrians and Muslims… so yeah..their loyalty to their religion can easily be bought off for a price of ricebag.
That Brian the turd forgets all this morally bankrupt Christian culture:
THE CHRISTIAN CASTE SYSTEM
http://www.desicontrarian.com/the-christian-caste-system/
Ethnic cleansing and genocide of the American Indians by Christians: As per “The peoples history of the United States of America” by Howard Zinn (A must read), The Bible and the religion of Christianity was used to rationalize the cultural and ethnic cleansing of the Native people of the Americas.
The first biological germ warfare was committed by Amherst against native Indians to wipe them out. He gave the native small-pox tainted blankets and he boasted about it.
Amherst to Bouquet, dated 16 July 1763, [128k] approves this plan in a postscript and suggests as well as “to try Every other method that can serve to Extirpate this Execrable Race.” (This postcript spans two pages.)
Doctrine of Discovery (Google search this…I can’t make this shit up. The Christian Church of Europe pretty much made a universal law that all lands of the world unless discovered by the Christians does not belong to the natives… It is the right of Christians to take any land and property belonging to non Christians. The doctrine has been cited by the US Supreme Court as recently as 2005, in City of Sherrill, NY v. Oneida Nation: “Under the ‘doctrine of discovery…’ fee title (ownership) to the lands occupied by Indians when the colonists arrived became vested in the sovereign-first the discovering European nation and later the original states and the United States.”
Slavery: The horrible cruelty of slavery was justified with the Biblical scriptures and practiced the most in the Bible Belt of the Americas.
There is no place in the New Testament where Jesus objects to the practice of slavery. St. Paul even admonishes slaves to serve their masters well—and to serve their Christian masters especially well:
Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ….
—EPHESIANS 6:5
Lynching: Again a proclivity from the Bible belt states of the United States.
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Omaha_courthouse_lynching
black-people-lynched
Jim Crowe segregation: Yet another proclivity from the Bible belt states of the United States.
“Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.”- Judge Leon M. Bazile, January 6, 1959
The Holocaust: Anger against the Jews for the Jews did not want to convert to Christianity got 6 million Jews gassed to death. Read the antisemitic rantings of Martin Luther the founder of the Protestant movement which was the impetus for the Holocaust. (Google for “Nazi Vatican Photos”)
Blood Libel. OMG! What evil! In Christian Europe, false stories were planted about Jews.. How Jews have to kill little Christian boys and use their blood to make Matzah balls for Jewish Passover. In India today, a lighter version of the blood libel accusation on Hindus has started showing up. Recently a Church in N.Delhi was robbed (The motive was robbery) but a blood libel accusation was made and documented by the Catholic Church as Christian persecution by the “evil Hindus”. In another incident a Nun was raped in Calcutta. The Catholic church put out an SOS ululating the Hindus are now reaping christian nuns.. The rape was allegedly commited by Bangla Desh Muslims not Hindus.
Remember the war cry to persecute Jews.. “They killed Jesus”. The recent Blood libel against Hindus to persecute Hindus… “They killed St. Thomas” Blood Libel accusation against Hindus. According to common Christian tradition, ‘doubting’ Thomas, a practicing Jew, was killed by jealous Hindu priests of Kali.?
Separate churches for blacks and whites in the bible belt.: Even today, the most segregated time in America is Sunday Morning. The Bible belt is full of White Christian Caste Church and Black Christian Caste Church. When a black preacher preaches in a white church the white congregation over a period time, abandon that church.
Rwanda ethnic Cleansing: The Belgian Christians made up a false history for the Rwandans.. Not unlike the India “Aryan Invasion Theory” mythology dividing the Indians into Aryans and Dravidians, the Tutsi and Hutu were divided. The Belgian Christians basically doctored a theory that the Tutsi were closer to Europeans because of their long neck and lean angular features. And we all saw what happened there. BTW In the Genocide of Rwanda, many Church clergy were arrested for their active participation in the Genocide.
The Catholic church must apologize for its role in Rwanda’s genocide – Chris McGreal
Anti Gay killings in African countries like Uganda on the instigation of the Southern Baptist Evangelicals. This disease is now spreading across India with the help of Christian missionaries.
Even after over 300 years of living as Christians, Majority of the whites and Blacks do not fraternize and inter marry. There are more Inter caste marriages among Hindus today than black christian caste and white christian caste marrying.
.
I can go on with more cases…like the Dutch Church being the impetus for the South African white Christian Supremacy and for the Lost Generation of Australian Aboriginals where the Church instigated kidnapping the children from Australian Aboriginal parents. I have not even touched on South American history. But you get the point?
If you think that it would be impossible to improve upon the Ten Commandments as a statement of morality, you really owe it to yourself to read some other scriptures. Once again, we need look no further than the Jains: Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, surpassed the morality of the Bible with a single sentence: “Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being.” Imagine how different our world might be if the Bible contained this as its central precept. Christians have abused, oppressed, enslaved, insulted, tormented, tortured, and killed people in the name of God for centuries, on the basis of a theologically defensible reading of the Bible. It is impossible to behave this way by adhering to the principles of Jainism. How, then, can you argue that the Bible provides the clearest statement of morality the world has ever seen? – Sam Harris in his “Letter to a Christian Nation”.
THE CHRISTIAN CASTE SYSTEM
http://www.desicontrarian.com/the-christian-caste-system/
Corruption has its roots in centuries of rule by alien oppressors who looted. plundered and raped India. This left India hopeless bereft of self esteem in progressive steps of devolution. As a result there is no collective revulsion or revolt against State Extortion which is over ridden by the imperative of self preservation. India’s grotesque Constitution plagiarized from the Colonial Government of India Act (1935) and George Orwell’s “Animal Farm” that enshrines inequality under law, exceptions to the rule of law, “The many Nations Theory”, and the non accountability of the State and its pampered, over empowered ,unproductive employees has exacerbated the situation.
This has nothing to do with the Dharmic religions except in the fantasy of alien religions who, having already exterminated the hereditary religious priesthood and confiscated the temples, religious freedoms, educational institutions, lands water bodies and commonwealth of the People of Dharma in 1921-23, set the stage for the Indian Republic to follow through in 1949 when it turned the People of Dharma into Third Class citizens and, in 1959 confiscated the religious freedoms and the Commonwealth of the People of Dharma in 1959 in formerly prosperous, and well governed Dharmic Princely States where corruption was a rarity until they fell into the maws of the Nouveau Kleptocracy of the Indian Republic..
For example, the Vijayanagar Empire was bereft of corruption and corruption, when discovered was met with capital punishment. There is the famous incident where Purandara Dasa (The Carnatic Composer) as a Tax Officer collected money through extra legal means to build a temple that the Empire was famour for. His sentence was commuted from death to imprisonment because he used his money for Temple construction rather than for himself.
In recent times, former Vijayanagar Vidcragalities such as the Princely States of Mysore and Travancore were notably devoid of corruption and evidenced a scale of prosperity, human, social and industrial development far in advance of the unfortunate British subjects in India until they fell into the maws of the Quota-Extortion Raj extablished for the Indian Republic by the Cambridge, Columbia, St Stephen’s, Madras Christian, Elphinstone and Presidency indoctrinated PANGOLIN* WOGs.
Today, India has collapsed to 135 out of 172 countries in Human and Social Development and 143 out 0f 172 countries in intenrnal peace and stability (UNDP 2015) because of India’s vicious anti National Quota-Extortion Constitution that condemned India to perpetual Civil War for the benefit of alien rulers who were replaced by their PANGOLIN* successors. The dream of every Indian boy and girl is to become and alien. A Judge, a Bureaucrat, a Policeman, a Journalist or a Crony Kleptocrat and shake the Pagoda Tree. This is the Indian Constitution and laws, and the manner in which the British stooges have modified it since 1969 to plunder wealth, opportunities from the weak and helpless for preferred alien religions, castes, tribes and the kleptocracy at work.
*Note: PANGOLIN: An enemy of India who believes in inequality under law, exceptions to the rule of law and persecution of some for the benefit of others. At present, the sole purpose of the Indian Republic, Constitutional or otherwise, is to pamper and provide for certain constitutionally preferred sections of society who the British found useful to hold and exploit India at the cost of those who the British hated and persecuted. The Pangolin is a creature that is unique to India and feeds on ants that are known in nature to be industrious and hard working if not quite as fruitful as bees who flee to better climes. (PANGOLIN is an acronym for the Periyar-Ambedkar-Nehru-Gandhi-Other (alien) Religions-Communist Consensus that usurped the British Mantle and has worn it with elan to loot, plunder, and rape India since 1921 and re write History and laws to their exclusive benefit since 1947)
That foreigner who does not understand head or tail of our country has written this. It is a highly twisted manipulated reasoning. And it is definitely not true. Please read my point of view, before forwarding this to anyone. If you have forwarded to anyone, please ensure you forward mine too because I don’t want any Indian to nurture their low self-esteem.
Culture of transaction to God is a child’s game, and is followed by unevolved beings in all religions. Don’t Christian churches and Jew priests collect money to provide salvation? If you take ancient Pagan religion of Europe, they make sacrifices. So does he call that a bribe?
Those daytime looters didn’t educate India. Education in India existed much before these idiots could form their civilization. They came to loot, and in order to enslave us, they wanted to enforce their system of rudimentary of “one size fits all” type of education. They wanted to fill their clerical positions and in that self-interest provided education. Missionaries came to spread religion in the name of education. And the writer talks as if it was some philanthropical act. They destroyed our culture, tradition in the name of education. Men wouldn’t be wearing pants and short cut hairs if they weren’t in the cattle-rearing type of educational system.
If a wealthy Indian want to gift a crown to his diety, it is his wish. Are New Zealanders gifting to the poor instead of gifting to their beloved? For someone God is beloved. What is his problem in that? What is given to God is for God not for the needy or poor. If someone wants to donate to the needy they can do it directly. Why should religion brokerage for it?
We Indians have so much better taste than those buggers that we created world-class architecture in temples. So what is their problem if our temples are rich?
Any idiot would know God cannot accept money because He / She do not live in our society. So why would God need money in the first place? Why would God do a favour? It is not a bribe. It is an offering. Mapping offering to a bribe is insane.
He has quoted about bribing in various wars in India. Did he forget as per the story told how Jesus got caught? Is he so blind to not know how corrupt Britain was and is? Ettappans are there in every race, creed.
If a corrupt politican comes back to power, it is not because we say corruption is ok. It is because we are so softhearted that we forgive easily unlike some idiots who threw a nuclear bomb for the pearl harbour strike.
He is talking about caste system in India. Doesn’t he remember what Hitler did just because he believed he was of a superior race? Doesn’t he know that women didn’t have voting power for several years after independence in America? So where is equality there? Doesn’t he know that staunch Muslims think that the rest of the population are unholy as per their religion?
All men are not equal. Why should we be? Everyone have different IQ and EQ. The question is – Should we be treated with equal dignity? Yes. When most of the world’s population cannot treat men and women with equal dignity, I don’t think they have any logic to comment about different sects being treated differently.
Alienating as if India is the only corrupt nation is BULLSHIT. All nations are corrupt in their own way.
Why we are more corrupt is simply because we don’t have strict enforcement. If that happens we will be less corrupt or as corrupt as other nations. But we can never be totally corrupt free unless individuals evolve. “Thirudarai paarthu thirunthaa vittaal thirutai ozhika mudiyaathu”
New Zealand is less corrupt not because they are full of goodness. It is simply because they are less populated and the citizens have lots of opportunities for a healthy lifestyle and enforcement is good enough to contain corruption. Indians who settled in New Zealand are less corrupt despite following the same religion isnt it? So his explanation is absolutely invalid.
MY RESPONSE:
I feel this article was probably written by a zealous Indian Christian in an attempt to proselytise. The figures in ‘Rs’ and ‘crores’ point to the fact that it is for gullible Indian consumption! Maximum number of Christian conversion in the world are actually happening in India- I have been informed by knowledgable Christian sources! The tragedy is in India, companies like Tata donated huge amount for schools for employee’s children, like Loyola School in Jamshedpur. But all the credit was collected by Jesus and the Jesuits alone. Same is the case with Mother Teresa- the common public, schools and organisations who donated, including the Kali Temple of Kalighat, don’t get any kudos at all!
And, while preaching and converting, I wouldn’t mind if a true picture is portrayed! Christianity is like preaching Yoga to Indians as a Western (Middle eastern) culture. Whereas the truth is ‘love and peace’ (Ahimsa), renunciation (Tyag), Celibacy (Brahmachari), Prayers in the wilderness for 40 days (Meditation), Baptism- washing away of sins in a Holy River Jordon by John the ‘Washer’ (Ganga Shnan), sprinkling of holy water (Ganga Jal, anti-animal-sacrifice against the daily sacrifices by Jews (Siddharth and Ashoka preached the same 500 & 250 years earlier respectively in India), vegetarianism (many believe Jesus and John were both vegetarians and preached against killing of animals) etc, etc, are thousands of years old Indian practices- and definitely from Siddhartha Gautam’s time in 500 BCE! Fact to remember is that during Ashoke’s reign Dhamma (ancient name of Buddhism) was propagated to Macedonia, Syria, Egypt etc in 250 BCE! Therefore it was indeed a relatively ‘new religion’ in the Middle East where the culture was ‘eye for an eye’, ‘life for a life’, and stoning to death, etc.
The truth is when Indians donate to temples they expect the money to be used for religious activities and service to poor individuals and families, feed the hungry- offer free meals, for running schools and colleges, orphanages and old age homes, animal shelters and homeless shelters, etc. A devotee doesn’t expect the deity/ trustees to sit on the cash/ gold and not use the money for social work. The devotee also does not want the trustees to become rich out of donated money. The devotee believes that donating hard earned money for pious activities will bring blessings of the Almighty!
In fact many believe that all these billions of Rs in Temple trusts must be used to reconvert Hindus who were enticed away from the fold! The Christians have used millions donated in Europe and USA to convert poor Hindus by telling them hogwash exactly like the one above. Hindus must reverse the ill effects of some zealous foreign missionaries and brainwashed Indian preachers, who are alienating Indians against Indian culture, traditions, and rich philosophy! They are dividing the majority and creating chances of a humongous civil strife in the future- clash of different cultures!
We all know that Hinduism (Indianism) is the only common feature that is holding India together. Christian majority states in the NE would be happy to unite with Christian populations of America or Europe (if they could) and Muslim majority Kashmir has turned openly pro-Pakistan!
To reconvert financial incentives to individuals and families, education, jobs, re-preaching the great aspects of Hindu philosophy from Indian ancient epics, etc must be resorted to! Every Indian must be trained to be proud of Ancient Indian knowledge and history and heroes. Foreign proselytisers must not be allowed to preach hogwash and insulting utterances against Indian traditions like the one above from NZ! Legal action must be taken if necessary like the 5 years ban of Zakir Naik for false propaganda for years!
Lastly the Europeans used steep Indian tax money collected from Indian businesses and individuals to build schools and colleges to produce cheap servants for their own administrative mechanism- the French taught French, the British taught English. Etc.
Indians don’t rule in Europe and America and collect taxes and donations, even, from non-Hindus to build Temples. So the comparison is preposterous and stupid to say the least politely!
Lastly I can give hundreds of examples of European/ American bribers, traitors and anti-national spies who have sold their country for money- I am not even mentioning Judas! Any one wishes to try me? Hahahaha
This article is inaccurate to the core! Either motivated to write in bad light or not analyses but opinioned as his mind wandered in thoughts and imaginations! He is one those who try to tell “Gita” encourages war and killing! It only reveals their lack of knowledge than anything else. Wouldn’t want to respond any points in article as they are not worth.
Half the American stand up for Indians hindu culture, Russia embraces Hindus spite being communist….whole Europe loves Indian hindu culture and visits india only for that greatness. Australia and Nz pple also has warm feelings about Hindus…
except this Brain from Godzone…!!!!!
If you not understand and want to blame a culture with half knowlede then these types of comments will come into picture. There is always a gap between people of current generation and cutluture. People of indian is confused with westren culture and ancient indian culture. If they simply follow ancient indian culture then there will be no issue and donation to temples started in hindu culture as temple are centre for running schools and hospitals and many social welfare activities.
As you told Europians done good for india, what about the money europians and US sending to conversion. I perosnally saw that people coming from westren countries and showing money to greedy people and spoling great indian culture and they already spoiled indian culture.
Also what would you say about the funds go to vatican city? First stop these tupid comments aout other cultures and try learn how you can respect ther cultures. That is what my culture thought me, does you culture not taught you the same.
If you are uneducated on some place or topic you should learn 1st then speak….or else that shows your bad upbringing n sadist nature of childhood depression and daydreaming on some cheap publicity by writing some degrading article on some place, people or country…..
Come to India…..Stay here, learn about its abundance of humanity, culture n heritage, it’s unity in diversity, it’s fight against corruption and love for all…Even people like you, idiot.
Starting from the bottom…..
It’s like Good Terrorism n bad Terrorism….. What is least corruption n more corruption….. New Zealanders are equally corrupt…If you take 1 rupee or a Lakh…….
There is no country in the globe which isn’t corrupt….
Now on 1400 years…..the person forgot that Buddhism started well over 2000 years…..so we have more faiths much before 1400 years…
That’s laughable to say no Indians…. We are all Indians…..when a problem comes up….the current situation is the best example….
On the trust part….DO you know where these New Zealanders landed from or their forefathers were from….From England.
They have converted, threatened, killed, murdered the local aboriginal people of New Zealand and still ruling over them for over 500 years now….
So who are more treacherous plz analyse…..
On caste, faith n religion…..
Only ONE COUNTRY in the globe….Where unity in diversity is the best seen and all the religion thrive only here to its fullest… Only here in India.
Now on trust….Indians are always simple and trustworthy….. But those who want to rule….put the tag untrustworthy but again belive them to convert them to their own religion…Christianity….
Even now thousands of Churches in the tribal areas are in converting tribal people to Christian…. Why… because they belive on simplicity n hope that will be more comfortable for them n bring them out of poverty….. Only conversion have increased 1000 folds but no reduction in poverty ratio…..
Now on Temple, Gurudwar money….
For your information…. Lakhs of devotees are fed FREE in thousands of Temples n Gurudwars….These places are not doing conversion in return…..BUT BUT yes these Churchs Convert openly n vehemently n shamelessly even today (check sensous of 1951 n 2011) same for Muslims too…Check it out.
Whoever had ruled India in last 1000 years have settled here and have cherished the vastness as well its rich culture n heritage……All religions have only, YES only in INDIA have been accepted in open hands….Be it Muslim or Sufiism, Jainism or Chirtianism, not to say about Buddhism or Hinduism……
If there is corruption here, we have the guts n audacity to curb it…. Which the world is looking with great interest n many will follow soon…..
If New Zealand not taking any steps soon the corruption monster will eat them too…..Just a matter of time….
The current New Zealand government is not the actual people there…. They are the migrants from England n Australia….. They have now ruling the local people for over 500 years as England did over us…..
So this guy who says as New Zealander is actually has legacy of tyranncy on local people and still doing it…..laughable that this uneducated guy on India….speaking about us……biggest fool.
Last but not finished yet…. Plz go thru the links below
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_New_Zealand
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11368274
Dayananda Ratho
This article is not written by a New Zealander but by an Indian–a New Zealander won’t know the Indian PMs name, let alone Karnataka ministers name and Jayalalitha. A New Zealander wouldn’t know the minute details of Indian history. Some non-Hindu (most likely Muslim) has tried to defame Hinduism through this article. Addressing its points:
– In all religions they ask members to contribute money for the functioning of their place of worship. Hinduism is not alone. https://www.reference.com/world-view/wealthiest-religion-world-74db8362daee3a14#
– Talking about history, Mughals never vanquished the Marathas, and the Rajputs prefered to fight it to the end rather than giving up their land. So, the article is BS with false statements in the name of historical references. The article goes on to say “400 years ago they all belonged to one faith”..this is ridiculous. The author doesn’t have a clue about history.
– He has targetted Hindu faith by saying that Hinduism branched into Sikhism, Jainism, Buddhism. Do other religions not have sub-divisions? If you google you would find that Christianity has a dozen or more, and Islam has half a dozen.
Its just a piece of garbage put together with the idea of defaming Hinduism.
The writer knows nothing about India or her culture.
Please remember most of the Australians and New Zealanders are sons and daughters or abandoned criminals of Europe, particularly UK. Inherently they have to remove that stigma and pretend to abhor criminal practices, but openly practice racism.
Is my assessment correct? Or am I look like an idiot or a stupid to you?
Atleast, something ,that has been acknowledged. and very well put forth by S.VRamanan’s reply.
Taking umbrage to the principal article, does not resolve , in any way,, the corruption, so very prevalent in India. Any amount of excuses & trying to white wash the situation, is not going to help, in the long run. When , we don’t accept this issue & try to turn it around, we will always remain, in a status quo, with no way of rectifying, what indeed is a harsh defect,
Quit quibbling. If we as Indians can’t rectify our wrongs and accept the “critiques” of others , we cannot play an international role, at all.
Putting jewelled crowns on idols and cladding them, in silken robes, is that our priority, when the poorer sections have to go hungry? Really? Is that just,, no matter what our economic status is?
May be folks in India are corrupt. But they are honest about it. They will tell you what they expect you to pay for a favor and deliver it on time. In developed nations, folks are very corrupt about their honesty. You have to figure out the so called OFFSET to make a DEAL that you cannot hold them accountable either. It is never a fair deal. Just because you find a legal loop hole does not make you honest.
You go fall at the feet of Westerners to call yourself international. Don’t drag the rest of the Indians along with you. If you are so concerned about the poorest section you go about dedicate your life for that. I am helping educate rural India in the way I best could. But I don’t expect someone to sacrifice their devotion or what they feel fit to do with their money and expect to spend it on the poor. Will the modern so called “international” minded stop going for any vacation or pub or expensive restaurant and donate that whole money for poor? Like you have no business poking your nose into someone else entertainment or spending, so do you not have the business to question whether they spend it on God or whatever else.
You fool. White and black are races not caste.
Same shit
Actually no.
It is not necessary to point out inadequacies of our culture in order to defend it. The fact it, if one visits Switzerland or Australia or New Zealand or USA, the average man can live their entire lives without encountering a single act of corruption. That is not possible in India. That is enough of an indictment of how things are in India. None of the Australians in Australia today had anything to do with eliminating the Aborigines or none of the current people USA had a hand in grabbing the land from the American Indians through violence. We are talking about life in these countries TODAY. An average human being encounters far less corruption in countries like Australia, NZ or USA than in India. This is an irrefutable fact and unless we acknowledge there is a problem, WE WILL NOT PROGRESS. Pointing to events that happened hundreds of years ago in other countries will not fix India’s problem TODAY. We have to set high standards for OURSELVES which is independent of what other countries and races do.
I meant to say “It is not necessary to point out inadequacies of other cultures in order to defend ours.”
If we think as a rationalist, then the writer’s arguement hold some water; particularly regarding our religious views and its connection with our corruption culture. Indians are most generous donors on this planet when it comes about god. What better word other then “bribe” you can give for donating crores of rupees to a rich temple? Society and religion play a great role in personality development and what can we expect from an indiavidual who have seen his parents paying occasionly in different temples according to their capacity? His unconcious mind will definitely accept “paying for favour” as a norm whether it is God or any government office.
Clearly we should introspect overselves rather then to question the writer’s views merely because he is from foreign land, yet another menifestation of typical Indian mentality.